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| I am curious about the D 500 series and wondered about the rarity, if any. I have read about the 55's and know they are few but found that in 56 and later they put that lable on almost any car, even wagons. So would a 56, 57, 58 D 500 be rare and worth pursing if the price was higher than for a normal mopar of that era? |
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Expert
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Location: Minneapolis | They are still fairly rare, though not as rare as the D-501. Price would be relative to the usual-- body style, condition, originality, etc. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | The D-500 option became an across-the-board offering on any car Dodge made starting in 1956. You got the big engine, as well as Chrysler brakes and beefed up suspension. It was pretty simple in 56, but after that it kept getting expanded into D-500, Super D-500, Super Dooper Extra DeLuxe D-500, etc. with varied levels of super dooperness for each.
Yes, the go fast stuff always enhances a car's value and interest level. Neil will no doubt chime in here. He has a rough percentage number of how many D-500's were built. They are scarce-to-rare today. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Hi, Paul; sorry I'm late, here. Is there a particular year that you're most interested in?
In the year that I'm most familiar with, and by last-known engine number(s) stamped, there were about 18,500 D500 Hemi
engines produced, and presumably that many cars, but there is no break-out between the individual models and/or
the single and dual-4 barrel carbureted versions . That production represented about 6.5% of the total 280,112 domestic-delivered cars, in the '57 M.Y. .
As '58 was a recession year, only 135,121(!!) Dodges were built in that M.Y., but, from the surviving examples I've seen, to date, there may be as many 1958 D500's still on the road, as 1957 D500's (owing to the
better construction quality of the 58's, their flashier-ness, and/or due to people taking better care of them; I dunno...
There may be 300 D500's still existing, in the world, for both 1957 & 1958 model years.
Edited by d500neil 2007-11-13 7:19 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 444
Location: North of the 49th |
So...what would be the deal on a 1959 Custom Sierra wagon with the D-500 option?? I have one... |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Grunau, I think I may know (of) your car; if it's that OEM black/red, with air suspension/roof rack beauty, that's presently residing in Sweden, but which I used to see in Southern California.
THAT car is super-DUPER rare.
Waitaminute; THAT car is not a D500 (but, it IS to die-for!)
What color/options do you have on your ride?
Your car is rare, and may be one of less than 10, still surviving in the world.
Can you post some pics on the Members Rides board?
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 444
Location: North of the 49th |
Well my car is not black and red its Beige (Saddle and Roof) the rest Bronze...its rough, as far as options its equipped with the swivel seats, rear facing "spectator seat", torqueflite, 12" power brakes, sure grip differential, adjustable fender mirrors and the roof rack, amazingly enough it does not have power steering. Its rough (fairly severe right front fender damage and years of weathering) and the engine is stuck ..... I have it in a storage facility right now but I will try to get some pics up as soon as I am able. I found the car west of Bismark ND. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Paul:
In 1958, Dodge produced 7,617 D 500s (includes standard, super, and fuel injected - if those ever actually delivered). That was approximately five and one-half percent of total production in 1958, so they are pretty rare for that year. I think D 500s of any year (1956 through 1961) are certainly worth paying extra to get, and I think most price guides concur and account for that option.
You had mentioned a '55 D 500, but I thought the D 500 option started in 1956. Do you have your eye on a particular D 500?
Mike
Edited by Lancer Mike 2007-11-14 4:21 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Hi, Mike, I don't doubt your production numbers, for 1958 D500's, but, how did you determine that figure?
I got the 57 production number off of a very-late '57 engine stamping, but, that's still an estimate.
Your 7617 D500's, divided by my direct-factory-authenticated US production number (135,121) would mean that D500 production
(thru all model lines) would be 5% , not even 5.5% .
Oooops; if I somewhere mentioned "55 D500", that would be a typo; '56 was the first year
for that sub-model.
Edited by d500neil 2007-11-14 5:19 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Neil:
I posted that question on the list service a few years ago and Bill gave me the following numbers for 1958 Dodges:
Passenger Cars
Coronet 6 LD1-L
Club Sedan 2,922
Sedan 4,592
Lancer Coupe 715
Coronet V8 LD2-L
Club Sedan 7,576
Sedan 31,707
Lancer Coupe 21,032
Lancer Sedan 7,117
Lancer Convertible 1,718
Royal V8 LD2-M
Sedan 7,515
Lancer Coupe 4,318
Lancer Sedan 3,332
Custom Royal V8 LD3-H
Sedan 9,981
Lancer Coupe 7,172
Lancer Sedan 5,747
Lancer Convertible 1,139
Regal Lancer Coupe 1,163
Sub-total Passenger Cars 117,746
Station Wagons
Sierra V8 LD3-L
2-door, 6 passenger 1,300
4-door, 6 & 9 passenger 13,113
Custom Sierra V8 LD3-H
4-door, 6 & 9 passenger 5,783
Sub-Total Station Wagons 20,196
GRAND TOTAL 137,942
Total Equipped with D-500 7,617
That Grand Total figure does not match other reports Bill provided:
Serial Numbers
LD1:Hamtramck LD1-1001 to LD1-8094 7,094
LD2:Hamtramck LD2-1001 to LD2-67167 66,167
LD2:LosAngeles LD2L-1001 to LD2L-9157 8,157
LD2:Newark LD2N-1001 to LD2N-10580 9,580
LD3:Hamtramck LD3-1001 to LD3-32180 31,180
LD3:LosAngeles LD3L-1001 to LD3L-7289 6,289
LD3:Newark LD3N-1001 to LD3N-4584 3,584
LD3:Windsor LD3W-1001 to LD3W-6097 5,097
TOTAL UNITS 137,148
Total Canada Production by Model
Custom Royal V8 5,097
Crusader 6 & V8 LE*-L 4,876
Regent 6 & V8 LE*-M 7,380
Mayfair 6 & V8 LE*-H 2,943
(I have seen different numbers for Canadian models in a recent thread)
Also, I have seen the following numbers posted on a recent thread:
For Export Markets:
Lynch Road LE1 Kingsway 6 1,674
Lynch Road LE2 Kingsway 8 498
TOTAL UNITS 2,172
These were most likely mixed-in with Plymouth production figures.
None of the numbers add up very well, even considering the 5,097 Canadian Custom Royals built at the Windsor plant. Bill explained the origins of these figures and he had a strong, direct-from-the-factory source too - in addition to other cross-references. Bill seems like an excellent authority on production figures and I asked him about the discrepencies. He said that production figures from the 1950's rarely add up and some of the discrepencies may be due to the inclusion of "complete knock-downs."
135,121 is a new number in the mix. I can't make an easy correlation between this total production figure and any of the figures Bill noted. I based the 5.5% on the highest total production number I had, which was 137,942. Did you have a similar break-out for the 135,121 figure? If so, I would love to see it. There is some missing piece that ties all these numbers together, and I would love to find it.
Paul, this is stretching your thread to the maximum - and I apologize. If we go further down this road, Neil or I can post a new thread.
Mike
PS. I think Paul mentioned a '55 D 500!
Edited by Lancer Mike 2007-11-14 6:12 PM
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Regular
Posts: 51
| Please continue, this is all very educational. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Over on the FWDLK's Daily List Server (see "FL Archives", on the home page's masthead-boxes) , I posted an official
Chrysler Historical Society print-out, that a friend had received, per his inquiry to them, about his 1957 CRL D500, and
its IBM Build card copy.
The H.S. privided him with a complete-model production, for 1957 and 1958.
On the List Server, we were only happening to discuss 1957 Dodge production, but, like I mentioned, the H.S. provided,
on the same spread-sheet, the 1957 & 1958 Dodge domestic & Canadian/export production figues.
Again, I do not necessarilly dispute a 1958 D500 production figure of around "7,500" , the Historical Society told me, back in
the early '90's, that there were no separate D500 production numbers retained by the Corporation.
My 1957 "D500" number is based upon personally knowing of two D500's which were built around 8/22/57.
Funny thing, though: determining the actual number of ALL the D500's that were built each year is as simple as checking
the H.S.'s microfische's information, at the end of each model year, and going backwards, and finding the last D500 engine
which was produced!
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Neil:
It sounds like that source is as good as it gets. I wasn't able to find the print-out in the daily list server, but I would love to take a look. Do you know approximately when the post was? I will post a message to the list server and see if Bill can retrace the origin of his figures.
Thanks,
Mike |
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Expert
Posts: 1622
Location: Seville, OH | There is a 1957 D500 on eBay right now. Apparently the owner drove it to Tulsa so some of you must have seen it. The odd thing is if you want the original engine, you have to buy it separately for $3000:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Coronet-1957-DODGE-D500-CORONE...
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Location: Blythewood, SC | I think I remember that car because of the roof paint damage. I don't have a photo of it. I thought I shot every FL car there...
Anyway, the car looks average. I don't know about the motor being sold separate. That doesn't seem like the right thing to do. Either sell it with the car, or don't mention that you have it. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I know the seller rather well.
He's got a 361 wedge (iirc) in it right now.
The car is a relatively heavily optioned Custom Coronet, with red interior, inside the all-black body.
The car needs a heavy-cosmetic restoration, but drives great.
Cedric Plester, of Fin-Land, may be interested in this car (OR: Jim Hoek, of Netherlands, because Cedric's now "into" all-black '57 Dodges,WITH red-interiors[!] and Jim's GOT D500 CRL, AND a D500 ROYAL, so, this would complete Jim's collection of 1957 D500 models--well, not including the convies, & wagons, but, still......?)
Jim might well have bought this car, @ Tulsa, if Jim had been able to attend.
Edited by d500neil 2007-11-15 7:17 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Mike: I'll PM you an image of that 57/58 Production Spread Sheet, and you might go-on and post it, on the "Fender Tag Decoding" Board, as that document would be able to live-on, and to be accessed, there, fairly easily (as opposed to its getting "lost", if posted only on this thread!)
Done.
Edited by d500neil 2007-11-15 7:16 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Well, for all you trivia buffs, out there, or for those of you who are at home, keeping-score: the car's D500 Hemi stamping
number is : KD500-13936, and it was cast on 4/10/57 . |
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Location: The Mile High City | Very interesting Neil! Thank you for getting that to me. On an initial comparison of Bill's numbers and the numbers you found: Bill has 9 fewer Coronet 6 2-dr. sedans, 99 more Custom Royal 2-dr. hardtops, 1,909 fewer Custom Royal 4-dr. hardtops, and 1,192 more Canadian-built Custom Royals! Otherwise, the two lists seem to agree. All those nines seem more than coincidental.
Interesting that Bill's numbers identified D 500s, but did not identify individual counts for six versus nine passenger wagons. I will see if I can piece together a bit more on this and dive a little deeper into the numbers.
Attachments
----------------
 1957 and 1958 Production Figures.doc (76KB - 200 downloads)
For those interested in 1958 production.doc (33KB - 247 downloads)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yep, unless a (relatively-easy-to-do) back-tracking is done, on the microfische rolls, the D500 production was not otherwize
recorded.
No reason to do so, anymore, than calculating the 6-cylinder car's production (Oops; I think that that
WAS done, actually, as there was a dedicated "6-cylinder" Coronet made, although I think that
you also could get a 6-cyl Suburban, as standard equipment, with the V/8 being optional. )
I've been meaning to approach the H.S. with a somwhat-similar D501 research project request, but that 'search' will be more
involved, because the 501's were built over a span of months, which requires better eyesight, than a mere scrolling-backward,
on each model year's end-of-production, and finding the last-shown D500 (engine) having been built.
Edited by d500neil 2007-11-16 4:24 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | I had a bit more time to look into the difference between Bill Watson's 1958 Dodge production figures and those provided by Neil from Chrysler. Ignore my previous post -
cars:
Watson shows nine fewer Coronet 6 two-door sedans, 99 more Custom Royal two-door hardtops, 2,325 more Custom Royal four-door sedans, and 406 more Custom Royal four-door hardtops. All other passenger car figures agree.
station wagons:
The total counts agree, but Watson shows 5,783 Custom Sierra's and 14,413 Sierra's while Chrysler shows the same number of Custom Sierra's and 14,413 "Custom Royal Suburban Sierra's." Although it sounds pretty fancy, that must be some sort of typographical error: Suburban was a Plymouth line and there were no Custom Royal Sierra station wagons.
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Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Warren, Michigan | Chrysler HS needs to invest the time and money into putting these records into a modern day database. Maybe charge for use of it or something to recoup the cost of implementing it. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | "Suburban" as far as Dodge was concerned, was the generic name for the 2-dr stationwagon, and sometimes, even in reference to all the wagons.
Dodge also had difficulty is describing the regular D500, the Super D500, and the D501 models;
duplication of descriptive terms, and somewhat inaccurate/confusing terms, right in the factory
literature.
Edited by d500neil 2007-11-27 6:48 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Mike, I just re-checked Chrysler's stationwagon numbers (posted as an attachment in your message, above), and
find that there were a total of 30,481 Dodge wagons built in 1957, of which 7,163 were the 2-door Suburbans, 13,033
were 2-seat Sierras, 3,212 were 2-seat Custom Sierras, 4,019 were 3-seat Sierras, and 3,054 were 3-seat Custom Sierras.
OOOPS: we're talking 1958 wagons; just re-counted Chrysler's numbers, above, and Bill's numbers agree with
Chryslers.
Chrysler breaks them down (in the same body-styles, as above-shown ): 1,300, 7,902, 2.278,
5,211, and 3,505 = 20,196 .
AND: unless-and-until someone scrolls-backwards, on the Historical Society's production-microfiche machine
(an EASY-enuf thing to do!) the total number of 1958 D500's built will not become known.
Edited by d500neil 2007-11-27 7:17 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Unfortunately, I haven't heard back from Watson yet. He seems pretty confident of the 7,617 number though - maybe he, or his source, already took the plunge through the records...
Now I wonder if a Canadian-built Custom Royal could get a D-500? I thought they all used the 354 (at least in 1958). Does anyone out there know?
I assume that export models (Mayfairs, Regents, Crusaders, and Kingsways) could not be equipped with a factory D-500, but maybe I am incorrect?
Edited by Lancer Mike 2007-11-28 3:36 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | According to Watson's statistics for 1958, there are no engine numbers for Canadian 361's, so that may answer the question. If you take Watson's numbers, you could make a simple extrapolation on the expected (based on even distribution) number of D-500s in each U.S. built model in 1958:
Coronet: 4,227
Royal: 927
Custom Royal: 1,158
Regal: 71
Sierra: 881
Custom Sierra: 353
I bet actual distribution probably followed a normal curve and that the higher priced models had greater incidence of D-500s. I also would guess that body styles may have affected distribution too: for example, four-door sedans might have a lower incidence of D-500s than two-door sedans or two-door hardtops. That's all conjecture though. Even distribution is the cleanest basis of expectations. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Using Vedder's numbers for 1957, an even distribution of 18,500 D-500s yeilds:
Coronet: 10,102
Royal: 2,890
Custom Royal: 3,359
Sierra: 1,707
Custom Sierra: 442
same notes as previous.
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D 500, how rare?
